Two trains start 20 miles apart and head toward each other, each going at a steady speed of 10 m.p.h. At the same time, a bird that travels at a steady 15 m.p.h. starts from the front of the first train and flies to the front of the second one, and then turns around and flies to the front of the first train again, and continues in this manner till the trains meet.
Questions:-
(1) How much distance will the bird cover before the trains meet?
(2) How many trips will the bird make?
Question 1 is easy. The relative speed between the two trains is 20 mph. So they meet after $\frac{20}{20} = 1$ hour. The bird would have travelled $15 * 1 = 15$ miles.
Question 2 however is not so simple. Consider that the trains are $x$ miles apart. The bird takes $\frac{x}{15 + 10}$ hours to make a trip. The distance between the trains reduces to $x - \left(2 * 10 * \frac{x}{25}\right) = \frac{x}{5}$ miles. This means that one trip of the bird reduces the distance between the trains to one-fifth. Given that the trains start 20 miles apart, we can say the distance between the trains after $t$ trips of the bird would be $\frac{20}{5^t}$. Thus we get the total number of trips of the bird as $T$:
$\frac{20}{5^T} = 0 \Rightarrow T = \infty$
The answer, though mathematically logical and valid, is a little hard to digest. At least I found it so. How can a bird make infinite trips? Bicyclists, flies, speed.. all seem so real and yet the answer seems so detached from reality. The trains meet in finite time, the bird travels a finite distance (answer of question 1) and yet the bird seems to have made infinite trips... How can infinity exist within things that are seemingly finite?
Infinity is a hard concept to understand and feel. I will not claim to have understood it. I have just made my peace with it. I do however seem to have an explanation as to how this seemingly realistic problem transcends to the unreal. When I say "seemingly realistic", I mean that it is perfectly possible to have trains which travel at constant speed and birds which fly at constant speed. By unreal, I am referring to how hard it is to believe that a bird can make infinite trips.
Although the speeds and situations are realistic, it is impossible to have a bird which touches a train and turns back immediately. The problem assumes that, if the bird is perched on a train at time $t$, it is in flight at times $t - \epsilon$ and $t + \epsilon$, for all $\epsilon > 0$. This is exactly where it moves to the unreal.
However, if we did consider the bird to take even a minimal, but non-zero, time to switch between the trains (say $\lambda$), we would have - bird takes $\frac{x}{25} + \lambda$ hours to make a trip. Thus one trip of the bird would reduce the distance between the trains to $\frac{x}{5} - 20 \times \lambda$. Obviously, then, we would have a finite number of trips.
Coming back to the concept of infinity, it is hard to feel it. The best you can do is have a fleeting image of it when you close your eyes and imagine the universe. A mosquito itch on your knee immediately brings you back to your sad room lit with fluorescent light. I end with this exquisite quote by Jacob Bernoulli
... Even as the finite encloses an infinite series
And in the unlimited limits appear,
So the soul of immensity dwells in minuta
And in the narrowest limits, no limits inhere
What joy to discern the minute in infinity!
The vast to perceive in the small, what Divinity ...


11 comments:
gud one ...
i think another way to get the number of trips to be finite wud be to consider the distance between the trains at the end of bird's last trip to be non zero, ie considering length/size of the bird...
@Shiva: Yeah, absolutely.
Hi dude. I feel that the infinite number of trips between the trains is realizable in reality as the distance between the trains tends to zero.
If we consider that the distance between trains is just equal to the length the bird.Now the bird can simply keep one leg on a train and other leg on the second train.Well isnt that equal to making infinite number of trips ???
so when the distance approaches zero, it may not possible to realize/visualize that the bird is traveling so fast to get closer to infinite number of trips .But when it the distance is lesser than or equal to the length of the bird ,yep the number of trips is indeed INFINITE..
@yo:
>> Now the bird can simply keep one leg on a train and other leg on the second train.Well isnt that equal to making infinite number of trips ???
Absolutely. I agree. However, you must agree that it is a "technical" infinity, rather an easily perceivable and obvious infinity (is there any such??!?!). If we define a trip differently, and considered the bird to be just a point object, what would happen now? Or a bird with just one leg? Or a dimensionless bird? I really cannot fathom the answer. You have any insights?
"are we so spiritually bankrupt , that we rather believe in mathematical infinity than a power called god".... from angels n demons..cheesy but true
Hi dude, the following are imo alone.Not really sure though of their validity/correction.so jus read it like a story.
INFINITY:
It was introduced to refer to things which are beyond the limits of practical realization.
Hence it isn't practically possible to do experiments and say " we have reached infinity",however rapid the modern technologies progresses.
But it is realizable,perceivable or u can see that "this is going to infinity{beyond physically realizable} for sure".Based on the degree of realization , I have categorized infinities into four groups.(yeah some can be in many groups)
1.Easily perceivable and obvious infinities(" I see you "):
a. A set of parallel lines. you can actually see/say that it will meet only at infinity{here infinity refers to coordinates which are just outside the phy limits}
b.An asymptote to a curve. you can see that it the curve won't meet the asymptote in physical limits.
c. Tan 90.
yeah you are right.obvious infinities can only be related to mathematical stuffs: For reality stuffs we have certain issues.
2 Exploding and hence infinite ."I can see that its gonna be an infinity soon"
these are the functions /instances where we assume infinity becoz they are aggressive increasing /decreasing and wud easily surpass the phy limit and they constantly keep aggressively increasing.
1.as x increases our {e^x or 2^x} increases pretty fast .Hence as x tends to be big, {e^x} tends to be colossal and apparently it will become infinite soon.
2.our bird problem comes in here (partially).When the distance between the trains decreases aproaches (slightly greater )~length of the bird.The number of trips increases drastically to an extent that they are soon pretty much gonna surpass the phy limits .
3.semi reliazable infinity ."Arent we thr already?"
These are technically infinity but still we can't SEE them.
A.a set of mirrors parallel to each other is technically should create infinite images but we can't see(thanks to aberration in parallelism of the setup and /or aberration in the mirrors) or visualize it to be like tat.
B.size of the Image of an object keep in a spherical mirror at its centre. theoretically infinite but practically speaking.. we wudnt feel like that.
C.As you said ,Our bird problem is only technically infinite. when the distance between the trains is equal to the length of the bird,It is making infinite trips between the trains.but yeah cant be visualized/realized.
4.Indefinite Infinity.
this is where its not even possible to technically prove/disprove things to be infinite or not.
A.Number of Points in a line. we never say that..1231231231837 e ^2312312 points= a line.yeah we cant never disprove it either.
B.division 1/0.yeah we can disprove any equation "X*0!=1"..but we can not disprove "1/0=X"...
C.The situation in our problem where the distant between the trains is lesser than the length of the bird.It doesnt make sense to count the number of trips here.
Here we can have a sentence "this might be equal to infinity" be we cant prove/disprove it.
5.Gimme a break Infinity [:P]. Indefiniteness
This is where things looses its grip from reality.it gets all philosophical and meta physical.
The problem is we dont have a sentence to validate here..!
A.0/0 is a good example for such indefiniteness .
B.This is where ur bird problem comes when the bird is a POINT object or a dimensionless object??(never heard of it b4 man).
as distance tends to zero and the point object has length of zero.we don't know what can happen!
As a purely metaphysical object, the bird now leaves the realms of reality and assimilates with infinity itself.. :P
@Yo:
I am in no way disputing that the bird has made infinite trips. And yes, it makes no sense to count the number of trips. It is largely theoretical.
BTW, an FYI: I once heard that there are types of infinity like "singly infinite", "doubly infinite" or "infinitely infinite". Don't know more about that.
Also, you say "we can see ... infinity". Can you really? Or do you mean just "reconcile to it being there". If you can actually see and feel it, my respects :)
My only point is this. With parallel lines, tan 90, etc, it is easy to accept the infinity. Here, with the bird case, everything seems finite, and yet ...
P.S. - Your real name? Do I know you?
|BTW, an FYI: I once heard that there are types of infinity like "singly infinite", "doubly infinite" or "infinitely infinite". Don't know more about that. |
Thanks .I don't know either.I have classified the infinities just to have a good idea about them.and yeah
I asked you to "read it like a story "..remm?
|Also, you say "we can see ... infinity". Can you really? Or do you mean just "reconcile to it being there".|
the later."to see here" is to perceive it.or like to realize that the function is capable of reaching beyond the physical limits.yep the later.
|My only point is this. With parallel lines, tan 90, etc, it is easy to accept the infinity. Here, with the bird case, everything seems finite, and yet ...|
the problem I see with ur perception(I am assuming it) is this:
"two trains ,one bird in between.. it cant make more than a five or sixth trips.That too if the first trip takes 4/5th of the time ... how did infinity jumpin here?"
this is fine for a distance which is greater than a threshold value (say a flyable distance).
But as soon as the distance between the trains gets closer ~ length of the bird. the definition of a trip changes here vastly.Time to reach between the source and the destination drops to nil.so the number of trips per even a minuscule of time period is vast.
Just imagine the following
1.a boy running from A to B.
Time taken to reach AB = distance /speed of the boy.
2.current flowing from A to B.
Time taken to reach AB = distance / speed of electrons.
3.Light passing from A to B.
Time taken to reach AB = distance /speed of light.
4.Having your hand with one finger on A and another on B.{have a giant's hands here or choose a smaller AB}
Time taken to reach AB= NIL!!
For the bird when it touches the trains,time remaining is far lesser than 1/5th of an hr .But if the time required to make a trip is nil,the number of trips is infinite.
P.S. lets play anonymous shall we?
@Yo(gesh? :))
>> But as soon as the distance between the trains gets closer ~ length of the bird. the definition of a trip changes here vastly. Time to reach between the source and the destination drops to nil.so the number of trips per even a minuscule of time period is vast.
Oh, well, yeah. Your insights have made me look at it differently. Thanks.
u got me :) sure.
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